SPEAKER_00 0:05

My name's Yasmin, and welcome to Hot Girls Have Endo, the podcast where we talk about the parts of endometriosis that nobody prepared us for. The pain, the gaslighting, the inflammation, the way it can take over your body and your life. But before we go any further, let's talk about the name because it is tongue-in-cheek. Hot Girls Have Endo comes from that ridiculous and later retracted study that tried to link endometriosis with attractiveness. So we decided to reclaim it. To us, hot means resilience. It means showing up even when your body feels like it's fighting you. It means advocating for yourself after you've been dismissed and building a life that isn't defined by shame, silence, or just a bad period. Because let's face it, that's not what endo is. It's not just about cramps and another bad period. It's inflammatory. It is systemic. And it can affect everything from your body, your mood, your energy, your relationships, your fertility, and your confidence. And this podcast is where we talk about it honestly the messy parts, the hopeful parts, and the real parts. Before we continue, I want to share something personal. After years of trial and error taking different types of birth controls and prescription drugs and alternative therapies, I knew I needed a different natural way to support my body. In full transparency, Dea is my company. I developed Deya's endo wellness period support formulation alongside my dad, who's a former USDA scientist, as well as input from a board-certified OBGYN. Dea is a 14-in-one daily supplement designed to support those navigating endo or painful periods. The formula itself includes targeted vitamins and minerals that may help to support a healthy inflammatory response, hormonal balance, protection against oxidative stress, energy levels, healthy blood sugar metabolism, and stress response and mood support. For me, this has been a huge part in how I've been able to support my body and manage my symptoms day to day. And it's meant to be taken consistently because real support takes time. If you'd like to learn more, you can visit dawell.com. That's d-a-e-a-w-l.com. And you can use Hot Girls10 for 10% off your first order. Not valid on subscriptions. As always, please talk to your healthcare provider before taking any new supplements. Now let's get back to the episode. Trigger warning. This episode discusses pregnancy and loss. Please listen with care or skip if needed. Welcome to the Hot Girls Have Endo podcast. I have- Oh my god, is that the name? Yes, did I not tell you the name?

SPEAKER_03 2:40

No, that's uh that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

You know that ridiculous study that came out trying to correlate the hotness of women who have endo? Like, how hot are people with endo? And they're really, really hot. And they retracted the statement. Um, well, they retracted the study. So it's kind of a play on that. I love it. Well, thank you for having me. So today we have Ashley on the podcast, and it's a very special episode because Ash and I have been friends for what is it, 15 years now almost? We met when we were in university together in London. We went to fashion school, didn't we? Yes, but then we ended up studying sports journalism at a fashion school. How does that work, huh? We were in the same dorms together, and that's where I met Ash. And she's just been a really great friend. We've been in touch for over 15 years now, and Ashley has suffered with endometriosis and she's gone through her own journey. But today we're just going to touch upon her background, how she's managed having so many high-pressure jobs. I mean, she's worked some amazing jobs and climbed that career ladder. Um, she's dealt with fertility issues and just hearing more about her journey and her experience. So, Ash, do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself before we get started?

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Yes. Also, thank you. I, as you've just said, I can't believe what it's been like 13 years, and here we are talking about something that has been so pivotal in our lives, both of us. As Yam said, obviously, we went to uni together, and then after uni, I joined Red Bull. That was kind of my first job in marketing and in brand, and then since then have really stayed in that industry in FMCG, worked with a bit of a brand called Estrella Dam, and then went to a couple of startups, and then worked for a brand called Liquid Death when they had international expansion, and then just kind of really in that sector within drinks, snacks, all of that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Some really big brands.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Yes. And it's been really fun, super exciting. But obviously, throughout that whole my whole career, personal life, and Yam, you'll know this as well. Like, obviously, for a long period of that time, I had never been diagnosed with endometriosis. I knew something was wrong from the age of I think I'd say 19 years old, where you know, I got my first period at I think I was 16. And then probably around 18, 19, I was like, this is only getting worse. Like, this is it doesn't seem to be like a bad period, the clots of blood that were coming out. Like, obviously, we can go into more detail in a bit. But I think just and my mum also having major issues, and my mum was very open about her her periods, her horrendous periods, how painful they were, how heavy they were. And obviously, that generation, they did fuck all. Like they really, they really didn't. And she has had, you know, a couple of very horrendous miscarriages as well, which she won't mind me saying. She talked, she does talk about it. And I think because she was so open, I knew I I knew there could be a possibility that something could be wrong with me as well. But I mean, it wasn't until I was 27, 28, and when it actually became a fertility issue is when people started taking me more seriously. And I switched doctors, which again we can go into a bit in a bit later, but all of that. So throughout that whole time, really it was just so insane working, traveling, all of this kind of stuff with having to manage all the endometriosis, which is a job, like it's a job in itself, and then dealing with infertility for five years, and then going through IVF for three and a half, and now we're here, and I'm four months pregars.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

Can you believe it?

SPEAKER_03 6:56

No, I can't. It's been such a journey, it really has. And honestly, like even when, and I'm sure you get this too, maybe people you meet people who have got endometriosis and you talk about it, or people that don't, and you go through your journey. I'm I'm still like, what?

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Like, how?

SPEAKER_03 7:19

How has it been? 12 years, like, or even longer. How, how, how? And you hear people tell their stories and you're like, it took 10 years for a diagnosis. The same with me, but but you don't really believe it. I'm like, I I say the words out that come out of my mouth about the diagnosis and all of that, but I just can't believe it's been that long, and I can't believe everything that we've been through. Like, it's insane.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

I know, it's not until you say it out loud. And like for me in my case, it was like writing it down. I was writing down every single year that I've been through it. It's been over 20 years for me that I've been dealing with this. And I'm like, that is majority of my life lost to this disease.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

Yeah, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

And I want to start off by saying about Ash. She is like, if you know Ash, she walks into a room and she lights it up. Literally, everyone just like turns around and they look at her, and you've got the most contagious personality and smile, and everyone always just wants to be around you and hang around you. And I don't think anyone looking at you or meeting you for the first time would even have an inkling of like what you've been going through for so long.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

No, agree. Well, thank you. But I also think that after after a while, and after like actually having an operation and finding endometriosis and actually sitting down, it's not really, it's only really until I went through IVF that I'm like, I can't do, I can't do, I can't, I can't. There's so much of me looking back and having that, and I do still have that personality, but you lose it so much going through IVF, you just can't, you physically can't, you become this different human being, and that's okay. Um one of the positives of being able to have like that self-reflection when you're going through infertility is like the energy I was putting into constantly trying to be that human being because I wanted to. You want to still be that person that when you walk into a room or when you're going to work, you're the one with the energy, you're the one with the positivity, you're the one that everyone can rely on. But after a while, it's just like that's not, I can't do that anymore. And like screening, yeah. Sorry, see ya.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Good. Yeah, you have to protect your like own mental and physical peace and energy.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

You know, and there's so many, like you, obviously, being one of the people that are speaking about endometrios and endometriosis and doing something about it, it has become so much more of a topic of conversation anywhere and everywhere. And it's being taken way more seriously, that it's kind of more okay to for it to be my per your personality. Whereas before I didn't know that I could do that because I didn't know what it was, what I had. I was told I just had bad periods, like suck it up, Princess. Yeah, really, and when you when that's ingrained in you for so long that I've just got bad periods, every I work with a lot of women. I grew up working with a lot of women that had bad periods, they're still in the office, like they're still in the sat at their desk, but like, why am I in the bathroom throwing up, blood everywhere, shaking, like have the shits, all of these things happening within 30 minutes. Like, how is that just a bad period? But like I'm being told that it is, so like, why can't I sit at my desk? Like, I must just be super, super weak. And that's definitely something that I look back on now, and I I'm just like, oh my god, I'm I I'm so sorry to myself for putting myself through all of that whilst also really trying to still be that human being that you know is funny and is laughing and is, and it sounds like it's not substory, but it's just it is though.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Like it is hard. It's hard. Like, I don't think people talk enough about how much you lose yourself through all of this. You start off as one person and you end up as a completely different person, and that's okay. I mean, we're going through so much shit, it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

110%. And I think I was so frustrated and annoyed. Like, I only got endometriosis diagnosed on my GP certificate last year, which is insane. I've had like before that, multiple operations removing endometriosis, like all of these things that have I've obviously got it and had it, but it makes you so frustrated at what this has made you become, purely because a silly man who, and unfortunately, it was a man, my doctor was a man for 15 years when he sat there cross-legged with a cup of tea, smirking at me every time I went in, being like, Ashley, it's you again. We've told you. And this I just remember him saying, You're not looking to get pregnant now, are you? You're 21. And I was like, no. And he was, and he was like, Well, until it becomes a fertility issue, uh, you know, there's not really much we can do. And like, those were his words, verbatim, and then cut to I don't know, 10 years later, it's a fertility issue. I can't get pregnant at all without support. And then you also go through everything else that comes with IVF and losses and being told that you potentially will never be able to have children. Like, what do you mean? I could have had an an operation, a diagnosis. We could have managed and controlled this.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Yeah, had a plan of action, gone through yeah, I know it's really frustrating that that's they don't take it seriously until it's a fertility issue. And that's like one of the things that definitely desperately needs changing.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

I know, or they try and get you pregnant if you're interested. Oh, because that's what my mind tried to do. I remember you saying that. They did, didn't they?

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah. So after my surgery, my surgeon was like, Well, you know, you do have endometriosis. We went in there, and it like the chances of you conceiving are low to none. Um, if you want a chance at getting pregnant, now's your best shot. You gotta do it now. And I was 24 at the time and I was not ready to have a baby. And I was like, Well, I'm not doing it. So we'll see if it turns into an issue later on down the line. But just so going back, you got your first period when you were 16. Was it awful straight off the bat, or was it it just kind of progressively got worse?

SPEAKER_03 14:06

No, it I don't remember it being awful, it just progressively got worse. And I do actually think it was probably 1819 was when I started getting really bad pains.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Because I remember you would be in your room at uni, just like dying from the pain, and I would be like, Oh, another one, here she is.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

Yes, yes, I know, but oh my gosh. I remember also because I was I played so much sport, and it was stopping me from being able to even like get on the hockey pitch, swim. And I remember like a couple of times people being like, What is wrong? Like, and I didn't want to be like, It's my period, it's my period, because all the girls were like, Well, yeah, get your shit together, come on, like we gotta win, which was fair play because like I didn't know I didn't know what was wrong, and I didn't know the severity of it, to be honest with you. And I think so, yeah, it started from around that age, and then I went on a cycling trip with my I just remember this so clearly. Like we went to the Alps cycling with my mum and like a couple of other friends and their mums, and it was absolutely amazing. And we were and like we were going down the mountain, so it was it was off, it was off-road, it was like pretty like rocky, but fine, so fun. And I just remember being like, Oh my god, I'm gonna have to stop, like, I'm actually gonna have to sit down. All of these people are gonna have to wait for me because I physically can't move. And I was on my period, and my mum just looked at me and was like, What was going on? And I was like, Well, I've just got really bad periods, but like I couldn't move. I had to get off my bike and lie on the floor, but also in a position that was like so uncomfortable because nothing's uncomfortable, like nothing's comfortable when you're going through this pain. Nothing helps. There's no one, I really feel like once the pain starts, you are fucked. Like, yeah, there's nothing, there's no ibuprofen, paracetamol, codeine, like nothing will help that. You're done. And I just literally remember like crying, throwing up, being like, there's it just feels like there's something inside of me, like a stitch that needs to come out. And all these, all of the mums and kids were obviously like, what is going on with Dashley? And also, you don't want to be the person that's holding people up, like you don't want to be the one that's annoying, you don't want to be the one that's like being pathetic because maybe they thought I was too unfit, or they were like, Oh, it's just an excuse. You and and that this was not in a mean way, or like, you know, they're like, Oh, it's she gets really bad periods, and it just sounds it's like it's not that though.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

It sounds so diminishing, right?

SPEAKER_03 17:03

Yeah, that's exactly what it's just a really bad period. She just, you know, like yeah, and everyone's like, Oh, oh, okay. Oh, she'll be fine.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Yeah, it's just her period, she'll get over it.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, oh god, whatever. And I just remember being like, my mum being like, This isn't like some this isn't normal. Like, something has to, we need to do something about this. And then again, went to the doctor.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

So was it your mom then that kind of like pushed for you to find out more?

SPEAKER_03 17:32

Yeah, she was like, honestly, she was like, Stop thinking that this is okay, it's not, this isn't normal. She was like, I know you, and I know that when you're in pain, like this has to be bad because you don't cause a fuss. And that's also bad. You're kind of scared because you are what worried about like what it could be.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Your mind starts spinning. Could it be cancer? Could it be this? Could it be that?

SPEAKER_03 17:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

And it's like the complete unknown. From that point on, from when your mom was like, Okay, Ash, this really isn't normal. We gotta get it figured out. You said it didn't, you weren't taken seriously until it was time to wanting to have a baby. So, how much time had lapsed between then?

SPEAKER_03 18:14

I we were 28, so seven years.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Okay. And throughout that time, you're walking you're working in all these huge companies. How are you doing it? Because I I remember I would look at you flying like all around Europe doing all these like events and stuff, and I would just be like, How is she doing it? Because I am dying over here at my desk job. I like the last thing I want to do is get on a plane and do an event when I know I'm gonna be on my period. Like I couldn't, I wouldn't be able to. So I don't know how you did it.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

I I think that's where I started and why I started getting panic attacks, truly. I do really believe that that is where my anxiety and panic attacks came from because I don't know how I did that. I remember and I shouldn't have. It's so ridiculous. I think I, as I'm sure like we all did, just my poor body was going through, our poor bodies are going through so much. I remember one time I had to travel, we were going to Barcelona. I was in the toilets of Liverpool Street Station, and I was like, oh no, oh no, no, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's coming, it's coming, I know it's coming. And then five minutes later, and I literally ran to the nearest WH Smith to see if they had codeine and um ibuprofen. Not that that helps, but I was like, something has to help me. And I remember my team being like, Ash, where are you? And I was in the toilets of Liverpool Street Station crying, being like, I can't do this, I can't do this, I can't move, I physically can't move, like I'm I'm on the floor. So missed that train and then had to get the like had to get another one to the airport because I was like, I can't be on a train with them. Like I can't be on a train with these people. They're going to be like, they're literally going to be like, who is this human being?

SPEAKER_00 19:59

So were you ever scared that they would be like, you know, you would lose your job because of anything?

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Like all the time. And that that is where a hundred percent my anxiety stems from because I kept it all in. I kept it so hidden. And I I say this, I really, really, and I I do think it's why like my family and Alistair, who's my partner, like sometimes I am very like I plan everything, and I think it comes from you're basically planning every single month of potentially going into what feels like labor. Yeah, and it's like it is sometimes compared to labor.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

I don't know because I've never given birth, but like I'll tell you, yes, it is. Yes, I was going through labor and I was like, oh my gosh, Kieran, these contractions feel like my endocramps. And he was like, Are you serious? And I was like, Yeah, just smiling.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

I was like, give me a little bit more of that gas. That is insane. And so, like, can you and so that's how I try to explain it to people. I'm like, can you imagine every single month, you know, us working, us wanting to travel with work, us looking at our careers and having such good opportunities and meeting all of these incredible people. But I'm looking at my calendar and when I'm on my period, like that is the most important part of my life every single month from the age of 21 to a year ago. Like that is insane. And then feeling bad when you can't travel, feeling like you're going to get fired or people aren't going to take you seriously because you're missing meetings, you're missing opportunities. So, like trying to stay on my game for other opportunities and just try and hide it as much as I could. And I, that is where I've done a complete, is it 180? Yeah, where I now it's the other way around. And I we'll go we'll go into the IVF part in a bit, but like it's impossible. You can't do both. And I think, but like learning and growing with the industry and how this conversation has evolved incredibly. within 10 years. It's such a more open conversation and a serious topic at work. There are still some major, like we really need to a lot of workforces need to be better. And 100% there's there's a lot of work there that needs to be done. But we're nowhere near where we were like six, seven years ago at all, which is incredible. But no, I I I look back at that time and I just think I never relaxed. You just don't like no you don't you can and I think that's why I would get panic attacks and anxiety at night time because it would be that time where I would finally be safe enough to let it go. Literally and I couldn't understand it. And like I even went to the doctor and they were like yeah it sounds like asthma. And I was like honestly now I'm like oh my yeah what I was getting my our bodies through like we're we're we're going through these pains every month. I don't know what it is. I'm being told it's a bad period I have no other diagnosis and I have to get my shit together because I really love my job and I love what I'm doing. But they're not going to take me seriously if they see me on the floor every month.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Did you ever have any like instances at work where you felt like you left some let someone down the team down or they felt like you let them down or did they ever say anything to you about it?

SPEAKER_03 23:27

Probably me feeling like I'd let so many people down multiple times but in reality I probably didn't. It was totally fine. But you know when you set yourself up for that expectation and of how you should be working and of what what everyone else is doing and I think it was more in my mind because I created that reality of what is normal and what isn't which isn't right. Yeah I've had instances at work where with women as well leaders which have just been absolutely awful where I've I left the company because they were just horrendous about endometriosis and an operation in general and how they responded to it.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Isn't that sad coming from like other women too?

SPEAKER_03 24:10

Honestly it was at this and there's still a global drinks distribution company the management was changing and we were super excited because this woman was coming on as our leader and I was so excited and I think I'm 34 now so I was probably 2930 at the time um so maybe four years ago super excited for her to come on board. I was about to have my endometriosis operation so laparoscopy hysteroscopy to remove and find out if there was any more endo growing anywhere. And I just couldn't wait for someone to come on board be really open. We had a lot of junior brand managers in that team who were women and so for me it was just really important to showcase like ways of working feeling comfortable with talking about these things as much as possible. But anyway so I we had this big tender presentation which is just like where you basically pitch for a business and it was happening the day of my operation. So prior to that we got everything ready we had loads of meetings and then the night before my operation where I was taking it off she called me and she was like oh Ash you're going to be able to do the tender tomorrow aren't you presentation and I was like oh no you know I'm actually off because you know I'm off and she went oh yeah you're going on holiday and I went no no no I'm having my operation and she went it's basically a holiday then but was being deadly serious it wasn't banter like we have banter like that is not the game no no and that this and she had joined a month ago and that and then the next day they hopped on a call the CEO went where's Ash like why isn't she on the call and she responded instantly and went oh she's on holiday no she didn't tell me this and did anyone speak up for you yes they went no she's literally having an operation right now she's under the knife they're taking out her insights and then her response was yeah but after that she's on holiday isn't she and they went no she's recovering from her operation and just like oh no that like we did go straight to HR and then a few things another few things happened but it sucks because it's setbacks like that that make you rethink about being open and honest about how you're feeling because that is literally a prime example of where someone could have been male or female it doesn't matter like male or female you be like you're taking the time off that you need by like it doesn't absolutely I hope it goes well please rest up recover honestly it takes very little effort for someone to believe you and be supportive. Exactly it takes more effort to do the opposite exactly and that was the point and I think to say something like that was a holiday just made me think well you have little to no care of anything that's happening around you know periods, endometriosis, anything like that that it you know it's horrible and I just yeah it but for other people it could really be such a setback and be like okay I'm never going to talk about this again.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

I mean I I if I would have gone through that I think I would have found it really triggering and like you already probably feel immense guilt that you're gonna have to be out during this huge pitch. And she's adding on to that like I if I put myself in your shoes I would feel so bad about like myself moving into that surgery which is like the last place you want to be before you're going in for surgery. You should just be focusing on like yourself and your recovery. And like you also don't know what they're gonna tell you after the surgery like there's so many unknowns. You don't want to have that BS on top of it like it's just it's awful.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

And you know what that's another thing she asked me about well what happens during operation like you don't know and that's what I think was another thing that maybe you know wasn't taken as seriously because with that those kind of operations you don't know how many incisions they're good you're gonna wake up with like it could be one it could be five it could be you don't know if you're gonna be in there for two hours or 10 hours it could be yeah you don't know exactly so what did you do?

SPEAKER_00 28:30

So you ended up leaving the job or what happened?

SPEAKER_03 28:34

I handed in my notice the day after my operation and because I was just like I know as women what we deserve it is not that I we are so much better than that. But uh she actually sent this company wide email to everyone on my last day and went by at like bye to Ash she's leaving blah blah blah blah blah and you it was like we were actually allowed to respond to these emails which was crazy because I know you're not really now anymore like company world wide emails and I responded being like oh thanks so much um I'm actually on sickly recovering from my operation or as some would say holiday but I wouldn't class I wouldn't class being cut open in four places as a holiday but everyone has their own crazy analogies and it went honestly people it's it was like an end just imagine everyone opening their emails being like proud of you because that's a really hard step to take too because you didn't have anything lined up I assume no no no but awful awful awful and I know that there are so many people women that go through that on a daily basis and it's not eas sometimes it's really not easy to speak and be honest and be open like it just isn't because you're not in an environment where it feels safe and that is still so common. It is unbelievably hard to speak up sometimes for anyone who's maybe going through something similar right now but might not have the chance to be able to quit their job and leave and find something else is there any advice you would give to them on like how to navigate it I know it's a bit finding platforms and if especially if you know you've got endometriosis, chances are someone in the company does nowadays, which is absolutely amazing. Or I don't know if you're able to have that support group whether it be your friends outside of work whether it be your family whoever it is just to be able to lean on and and vent about how stressed you are and how this is uncomfortable because I've been there and I'm sure like where I haven't spoken about it and I you know I saw that as being strong or being you know I can deal with this I'm able to but actually in reality the minute you start talking about these things is the minute that you feel like you can go and you know speak to work and say this isn't right. I'm not feeling respected. What would you would you say?

SPEAKER_00 31:08

I don't know maybe like it's okay to have like your work boundaries in place because I know that's something that I was really bad with was having no work boundaries and the minute someone needed from something from me I would just drop everything and you know do it even if it was outside of work hours or if I felt awful. I remember I there was one time where I had a really big photo shoot scheduled for that day that I needed to provide something for but I woke up on the floor of my bathroom unable to go in and when I was you know explaining it to I I didn't want to explain the whole thing to my boss but I was just basically like you know what I feel so bad today I cannot come in. They're like well what's wrong because I was in the day before and like again I feel bad saying like oh it's my period but I was just like you know it's my period and I'm just not in a good state to come in but it was this really big thing and I remember like later on that day like I trudged in to work like very late and I'm like why did you do that? Like it's okay to not show up. Yeah yeah yeah and just like having that boundary it's so hard but like don't let the guilt consume you have your boundaries and be okay with it not everyone's gonna be happy with it and that's okay. At the end of the day most of our jobs we're not saving lives.

SPEAKER_03 32:24

Yeah it's so true absolutely and I would say one thing if you are able to leave or get another job if that is a possibility and if you can because you feel like you're not being taken seriously and you feel like they're not taking your honesty and your vulnerability seriously get the F out of there. Yeah start making plans at least yeah yes if you can because there are and and I think it's also like it is there are companies that are better than that. Like there are places to work where there is support and it's not a toxic environment where you feel like you're just losing yourself even more.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

And that's definitely something I struggled with a lot and I think it's part of the reason why I'm so happy that I don't have an employer anymore and I know I'm like in a fortunate position that I am my own boss now because you know I'm not gonna give myself shit well I still do sometimes but I'm gonna be bleeding. How is your workplace now? Are they more understanding? Like are you in a better position? Are you like since you've been through everything like do you have more boundaries in place?

SPEAKER_03 33:31

What's it been like 100% I have so many boundaries and I think I'm very open with everything that I'm I've been going through and with IVF especially you the amount of scans that you have just it becomes your priority it becomes your identity it is a risk being open about that stuff because you know one round all right Ash two rounds three rounds four rounds egg retrievals it's like consistent for a good three and a half years but at the end of the day life is more important and I won't work anywhere where that is not a priority because you can get the job done please don't tell me that that there's certain there's certain things that you know working from home and all of this kind of stuff. But for example the my current employer he the CEO called me like four days ago and I had to miss two work trips last year because I had another endometriosis operation and then I went straight into my fourth round of IVS so I had my implantation which I take two days off for that I missed two work trips like they were scheduled exactly the same time and he called me and he went oh my god and I've just been to Amsterdam the day before and yesterday and he was like oh my god it'd be so good to see you because obviously you know you haven't actually made any of the last work trips because of well obviously just being like everything that you're going through but there's that bit inside of me that was like oh yeah I'm not performing I'm under tackles go up yeah and then I was just like step out of that cool and I know I don't it's like the overthinking of what did he mean by that? Was that a dig? Is he concerned? And then you let I let myself have all of those thoughts and then you're like fuck it move on. Okay. Yeah if there is a problem please yeah sit down with me. Um but it still does happen to this day but I think you just get so used to it it is really hard and I can't tell you the amount of times where I sit here and I'm like is it worth it like what is actually worth it you just have those moments where you're like oh my goodness is it ever gonna get that little bit easier but then you know a lot of it is in my head and so but yes this current employer are great and it's very open the conversation's open the same with my previous job I think even when you start a new job it's difficult yeah because you have a six month probation period I'm like oh I'm just I'm going through IVF the first week I get there and it's like oh she's thinking and then also it's like you're a woman they're thinking oh shit she's gonna get pregnant so that well not well yes now but like sorry it shouldn't laugh but yes no not for a long time but the hope is there and yeah that and then you'd think well they're gonna literally they're gonna fire me yeah because she's gonna be gone she's not gonna take it seriously she'll go on maternity leave bye bye but it's just not like that and I think again that's us putting that into the world when in reality it is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

I think a lot of it is so obviously it's physical but the mental side of it is just as difficult because I think do you remember so when I got pregnant I found out I got pregnant the same week I just after I accepted a new job offer literally days after and it was during the pandemic. And then I was like you know what I had three month probation I was like I'll just you know ride it out until the three months and then I'll tell them because that's like the appropriate time to announce it I was so violently ill. Yeah like I had hyperemesis from seven weeks the first week of my job Ashley I was like I had I think like five client calls scheduled every single day to like introduce me to my like new accounts and like you know get everything sorted and it's a very much face-to-face job. I used to work in PR and communications so during the pandemic everything was obviously over video and you had to have your video on I had my giant sick bowl right next to me and like I would hold it in and like have this conversation and then as soon as the call would end I would just be like vomiting everything out next to me. I think I lasted two days and I said to my husband Kieran I was like I have to tell them and I was like and they're going to fire me because why would they keep me on? I can barely function I'm pregnant they know I'm gonna be like leaving in a certain amount of time to go on maternity leave and I was just like bracing myself for the worst like all these thoughts going on in my head and like I had the conversation with my manager and she was so supportive and she was like that's totally okay and she's like why don't you like speak to your doctor see if he can sign you off work I had just started this was my second day she's like see if he can sign you off like you just need to take the time to rest and recover. And maybe like in a month's time you'll be feeling a little bit better maybe not but at least just take that time for yourself. And plot twist they didn't fire me. They wanted to keep me on beyond maternity leave but I know I didn't end up going back because I had Isla and wanted to spend more time with her. But it's just just to say like the stories that we can create and the pressure we put on ourselves is so much and sometimes it's good to just take a step back and not always go to the worst case scenario. A hundred percent and if someone has a problem let it be theirs yeah exactly so then you've been working all these big jobs you've got a great place now and it's still you know you still have to put in that mental effort to not let kind of the guilt take over and your mind be overactive about the things that people say so you and your partner Alistair decided to start trying for a baby when how many years ago did you say it was 34 but probably about five and a half years ago what did you expect like going into it? Like did you think did you think that you were gonna get like pregnant right away or it was going to take some time or walk me through it.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

I I'll walk you through the sex it was two seconds get it done honestly um I'm sure Alistair would love to hear this yeah I know like bitch that's gonna be that's gonna be the teaser for this whole podcast let's talk about the sex it was two seconds you walked in naked no so the thing is I think I switched doctors we moved so after covid we moved to outside of London and the doctor that I had been with for since I was 18 years old was my family like where my family are from and I switched never thought to switch before obviously because I was too just like in my own head I can do this there's nothing wrong with me obviously there was and I switch we switched doctors and I went through like just a checkup with him and he wanted to go through my history and go through just just everything. And I wanted to bring up pregnancy and fertility because I just knew I knew something was wrong. We know our bodies I like I had also started having two periods so when I was ovulating I would be getting a period so I was bleeding twice a month stunning stunning and still that was not taken seriously that's fine ash until you want to get pregnant keep bleeding twice a month literally it's actually it's actually now doctor needs to be fired. I know honestly just you wait so I started talking to him and I went through my endometriosis and he was like but you haven't been diagnosed and I was like no but here's my symptoms here's what I have been having and like even when I was telling him the clots of blood I'm now bleeding twice a week and and again it was a male doctor but he was looking at me like what on earth Ashley like that we need this is not okay and I was like wow oh my gosh and and then we got onto the fertility side and I was like we've probably been trying for six months at this point and absolutely nothing. I'm bleeding quite a lot anyway like when I'm ovulating which is obviously when you're meant to be trying so like I feel like that's not a good sign. It hurts when we have sex quite a lot which is another symptom you know of endo a wonderful symptom right yeah yeah stunning ow ow ow ow ow ow yeah talk about a way to kill a mood right that hurts stop no no no no no not there um and he uh basically I've never been able to go on the pill and neither's my sister because my mum's got deep vein thrombosis so blood clotting and they're quite strict with anyone direct family females of while going on the pill and um so he was like wait you've been with your partner for 10 years plus you've never been on the pill or any birth control trying yeah and he was like you these are your symptoms and he was being genuinely serious and he was like you've been trying for six months but prior to that you've never had any scares or assuming you are having sex and like and I was like yeah never and he was like right well first we need to sort this diagnosis out and secondly you should really be looking at IVF and fertility treatment and I was like I knew it I like I knew it I did it feel really validating in that moment to hear him say all of that or was it annoying?

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Like which way did it go?

SPEAKER_03 43:43

No okay it was unbelievably like just almost like a breath of fresh air from him to be like this isn't normal what the actual we need to start taking this seriously and And start looking at what IVF could look like and fertility treatment, but first get this diagnosis like in check. And that's when I literally got in the car and I think I just burst into tears. Yeah. Because I was like, oh my God, I knew it. And I but I wasn't, I was expecting this from someone. Like I was expecting this down the line. I think I knew that kind of fertility and endometriosis were, you know, there was a correlation there. Even though it was still really wasn't spoken about that much. I just was like not surprised. Let's go. And then we started the and also what's so funny is the amount of ultrasounds I'd had to try and diagnose endometriosis. You can't find endometriosis on an ultrasound. So like every and I'm not joking, like I want to pull my doctor's records because I swear to you, every single time I had an ultrasound, it would be like, oh yeah. Yeah. Or there seems to be a little bit of liquid around your uterus. So, you know, we'll note that, but like nothing, nothing out of the ordinary. And I was like, Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

So this is just all normal.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

Yeah. And so they were like, We're not going to put you forward to have an operation, a laparoscopy, because we don't think it's necessary. But then I did. I got all I got put forward to have a laparoscopy by this doctor. And obviously, like the waiting time to have these operations is insane.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Yeah. How long is the wait on the at the in the NHS?

SPEAKER_03 45:27

I think it it can be up to two and a half years.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 45:31

Yeah. And so it was a six-month wait for me at the time. And yeah, that's when they first found it. And that's where they first found it, all over my ovaries, underneath my bowel, under my uterus. I you wake up in the in the room and they're like, yeah, we found endometriosis. All good though. So great. And and like being so British, and I was just about to say being like that is so British. Oh good.

unknown 45:59

Oh good so.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

I was like, oh great, brilliant. Stunning. Thank you so much. Thank you. Also, you're still high as anything. So I'm honestly just like, oh my god, amazing. Do I need to do anything? Do you want me to do anything?

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Honestly. So what happened after your first surgery? They found endo everywhere. Did they tell you anything about like excision versus ablation or what they were going to do? No.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

No, there is part of me that for some things, like going in without knowing anything, obviously with this, I should have. Um, and also should have been told maybe. I had no idea. I had no idea I was gonna wake up with four incisions around my stomach. Like, I had no idea. At this point, I don't think there was a lot on because nowadays you look on TikTok, you look on Instagram, and you could you literally can see the amount of people that have had laparoscopy, historioscopy, what's happened, what's the recovery like, what you should be asking doctors. Like there's so many great things out there, but for that one, nothing blew my mind. Did not know about what the recovery was going to be like and was in shock, really. And they found out one of my fallopian tubes isn't functioning, which is obviously really good to know.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Yeah, that would be great to know.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All of those things, and that my lining that looked like there might be something wrong with my lining because it's just so thick.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

So, is that the one where they were like you might have endometrial hyperplasia, or was that like the following surgery? No.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

That was for that was following.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Okay, so how many surgeries have you had in total? Four I think four, four surgeries in a in a short amount of time, too.

SPEAKER_03 47:38

In two and a half years. Wow, crazy. And that's obvious that's not including, you know, two egg retrievals, implantations, biopsies on my lining, because they had to check all of those things and the waiting times and the cost of all of that. Because if you haven't had X amount of failed rounds of IVF or X amount of miscarriages, I mean, you don't get to have these tests. So I had to wait until I had all of that to then off I pop to be able to have these tests. But yeah, so operation-wise, those four, and it's insane the recovery, the healing, what they do inside of their what do you think when people say it's a minim minimally invasive procedure? Their response to, oh, it's only keyhole surgery.

unknown 48:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

Like, what? And then me again, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so true. It's it's fine. And then you're like, Am I dramatic afterwards? When you're like, why is this so painful?

SPEAKER_03 48:33

Honestly. But then you look at the bruising and the bloating and the swelling and the just, I mean, how your body is healing from that. It's is it's absolutely insane. But then also the community of people online that talk about it, that are filming themselves like can't move, crying, can't get up. It's that that for everyone for endometriosis is like is what people need to see, which sucks. But like they people still don't get it, even when it comes to, oh yeah, they just burnt some endometriosis off my ovaries, like, oh right.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Casual.

unknown 49:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

So so your first surgery, you had no idea what was like what they were gonna do. Second surgery, how far, like how long after your first one did you have your second surgery? And what was that one like? A year and a half after.

SPEAKER_03 49:23

Which is a really short time. Um I got told that after my first surgery, endometriosis doesn't grow back within five years, is what they're thinking.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 49:35

Yeah. That's literally what the doctors told me.

SPEAKER_00 49:38

And they were like, And do you know if they excised or burned it off? Like, did they cut it out or burn it off? Okay. Oh, second time was burnt.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

Yeah, off my ivory.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

And did they tell you why they wanted to burn it? No idea. No, okay.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

Again, questions I probably should have asked.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

I didn't know. But it's at this at the time, sometimes you know, it's a lot of information that you're taking in. And so was it done by the same surgeon or a different surgeon this time? Oh, same surgeon.

SPEAKER_03 50:08

Okay. Is incredible. There's there is a like a lot of a backstory there, but how it was such a short time between my first surgery and the second surgery. I started IVF really quickly after my first surgery. And so them telling me that endometriosis doesn't tend to grow back within five years. That's what we're looking at. The stats, that's what the stats are showing us. Okay, fine. With IVF, I'm being fed estrogen, and that is what tends to, that's what endo thrives off of. I didn't know that, really. Over the year and a half to two, I think it was actually it's two years that I was going through IVF. I had an egg retrieval, three failed rounds of IVF and a pregnancy. But I, after my third round of IVF, I knew that something didn't feel right. And I think we'd had like a three-month break from IVF because I was like, I just need a I need a break. They had put my two last embryos in and it didn't work. And so I would have had to have done a whole new egg retrieval, which we started last year. And I was like, okay, I'm just we're just gonna have a break for a bit. And in that break, my body obviously started healing, it started, the cycle started coming back, and I was like, oh my god, the pain's back. Something isn't right. I'm 99% sure that my endo, like it's come back, it just feels like it has. Uh, we got on the call with a fertility clinic, and he was like, Okay, if you feel like um and I basically in that time had had another egg retrieval. I got OHSS, which is where your ovaries just like swell up there, like nine centimeters each.

SPEAKER_04 51:43

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 51:44

After that, again, started feeling pain, and we were ready to implant. My body was looking like it was nearly there. And I was like, I got on a call with a fertility specialist, and I was like, I don't think we should do this. I think the reason why it could not be working is because my endo's back. Um because obviously endo creates inflammation uh with your hormone imbalance, and that inflammation can be, especially if it's in my lining or my lining is the problem, that that is a huge reason why this might not be working. And so they were like, Okay, Ash, if you feel like it's a problem, we're gonna stop this. And obviously, when you stop a cycle, you stop all the injections, you stop everything, and you then have to start all the way again. So it is quite a long process. But the same doctor that did my first endometriosis surgery managed to get me in for another one. I had healthcare with work and I was able to get, and lo and behold, they found it again, all over my ovaries, underneath my bowel, and around my uterus.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

Again, so quickly.

SPEAKER_03 52:48

A year and yeah, a year and a half, which is just scary. Scary, scary, scary. And also, there is so much when it comes to IVF that I don't know, we don't know what it's doing to our bodies really full term. Like, we don't, um, especially that amount of drugs, that amount of things that you're putting into your body, like it's insane, and that's a prime example. But then straight after that, I healed for a month. We went on to my fourth round of IVF, and that's where I got pregnant.

SPEAKER_04 53:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 53:15

So I've seen a lot of things, and I've seen a lot of specialists say that having an endosurgery prior to IVF implantation doesn't help. But then I've seen a lot saying that it it can support. But I do really believe with me, that hormone imbalance that is caused by endometriosis was such a huge part of why it wasn't working. That pregnancy is that the one that you have now that's uh okay and this one with with this one, we put two embryos in, and then at seven weeks we lost one, and so I had a huge bleed, crazy, crazy, crazy. And I honestly I was thinking about this yesterday. I was just walking up to a coffee shop, had a massive bleed, and was like, oh no, I'm having a miscarriage, it hasn't worked, and but then just walked up to the coffee shop and got a coffee, like because and you feel like desensitized to it almost, yes, completely, and like that's scary because that is also quite concerning. It was a lot of blood, but I had got to the point where I'm like, oh well, it was about 7:38 a.m. I'll wait till the fertility clinics open, I'll give them a call, and then we'll just go again. Mental, but anyway, so we went into the clinic, they scanned me, and that's when they found out we had lost one, but we still had one there, which we saw the fetus and everything, which was crazy. Wild. Then I I suppose like for a long time I had a hematoma on both sides, and they I was on bed rest. You are a bit concerned about everything because you know you lost one. What does that mean for the other one? And why did it happen? How did it happen?

SPEAKER_00 54:57

What has it been like since you've been pregnant? Have you been able to enjoy the idea of pregnancy? Are you like anxious about it?

SPEAKER_03 55:06

When you go through IVF or any kind of fertility treatment and having everything that we've everyone that's gone through endometriosis knows and feels. I feel like I have two different versions of myself, and there is one version that is like the IVF version where you hear that amount of bad news on a daily basis for three and a half years. You have to become you like a person that just kind of hears what you're saying, but it goes out one ear, like in one ear, out the other. Because it is so hard going through all of that, taking all this medication, having all of these scans, losing yourself at work, and having no idea who this human being is that I am at work anymore. Like I don't have a personality. IVF is my personality, it becomes your identity. The the hardest part is fighting that because you you don't want it to be that, but you do want to have a child. And this is the only way that you know, right now seems to be what you're able to do. And so you you have that built up for three and a half years to five years, and then you all of a sudden manage to get pregnant, which is what you've always wanted and wished for. And you know, I'm four and a half months now, so you know, we're we're there, like it's it's moving, but even even how I've just said that, it's not we're there, we're getting there. You can't just shut that off, like it's impossible to shut that off. But I also think, and I know that that is normal, it's not something to, you know, going through that and being so guarded all of the time, you can't, it's not something that you're just gonna be able to, you know. When I told, you know, my mum, my family, my friends, everyone's like screaming with excitement, and I've just sat there like I'm not there yet. Like, I'm not there yet. And that's that's I think that is definitely it's difficult, but I know Alistair feels it too. From his side, you know, it's also extremely hard. One, because there is no way to help me, like there isn't it unfortunately. There's nothing he can control about it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

Exactly, it's all out of his control, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 57:18

And you just literally have to watch this me going through this, and you know, you can't do anything about it. So that's equally just as hard. And also, um, you know, I don't think he's told many of his friends yet, because it's after a while, you act you are scared, you're like, Oh, I don't I don't want to have those conversations over and over again, and then you know, it not happen and feel all of all of those emotions again. So, but I think us having that together and us talking about that and communicating about it um is super helpful because yeah, otherwise it would be really, really hard.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

Would you say that's been like the biggest support that you've had throughout the entire experience is just with Alistair?

SPEAKER_03 58:01

Yeah, I think so. But also, I do find it's hard to open up to anyone, really, because you come you become so closed off and guarded. Because at the end of the day, when you know, if we're looking back at both our work journeys and both our endometriosis journeys, we are the ones in bed at night. And, you know, haven't always been with Alistair. This started a long time before him. We're the ones in bed at night going through this pain. We're the ones that wake up in the operation room by ourselves hearing this news. We're the ones throwing up in the toilet, like we're the ones at these scans being told something about our bodies that we don't necessarily want to hear, but like it is all us at the end of the day. And like that's not, yeah, I don't want that, but it just is. It's a fact. And it's like it does become really isolating and super hard to want to talk about it to anyone because you get so comfortable within yourself. Yeah, I always don't want anyone to ruin that bubble or break that bubble because I've actually managed to control it myself, which is bad. I don't think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

I know, but everyone goes through it in their own way. And that's something I was gonna ask you because I know when you were going through everything, there's there were so many times where I wanted to message you and just like you know, ask you about it. But I was also really conscious about like I didn't want to probe because I know it's such a sensitive topic, and I don't want like from my own experience, there's also times where I've wanted to retreat within myself and I don't want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 59:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 59:31

And I didn't want to put you in the position to feel pressured about having to, but I also wanted to let you know that I was there if you wanted to. Yeah, it's like a hard, it's a hard line to balance.

SPEAKER_03 59:44

Yeah, but you did though. And I remember you messaging me just being like, I'm here if you want to talk about anything. And that's always the best, the best way to go about that. Is like it is because it is tough and everyone is so different. But I also think at the end of the day, I have to remember that no one knows what to say. No one knows what to say in these situations. If something comes across as offensive or they're asking a question that you don't want them to, that's on me to say this is these are the boundaries, the boundaries as well. Like it's not, it's not, no, it's such a hard topic of conversation to discuss, isn't it? Like, because you don't know what to say. Even when you've got friends that have multiple kids, and I want to be like, How the fuck are you doing that? Because I start looks like they're all really young. I'm like, are you all right?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:33

Oh, I have the same question because I'm like one and I'm like, I'm not all right sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:38

Yes, no, a hundred percent. But it's even things like that where you don't know what the right thing to say is to anyone all the time. And so I think it's also just taking everything with understanding that mentality and just taking it with kindness and being as open as possible, but also being okay when you don't want to be. I've really learned that I don't want to talk about these things, I'm not gonna go to this event because I don't feel like I want people to ask me questions about it, and that's okay. I'm not gonna overthink anything, I'm just not gonna go. I'm not keeping myself away from socializing. I just don't want to right now. That's also really, really important, but hard. But you do once, once you know, practice makes fucking perfect, doesn't it? And like you do just realize the amount of energy you put into worrying about other people and what other people are thinking is actually what's the point?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

What other people think is none of our business. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. So kind of ties into one of the questions I was gonna ask you is if someone has a friend who's obviously going through IVF and it's been a complicated journey and they're not really sure how to kind of approach their friend to let them know that they're there or they want to talk about it, how would you recommend they kind of go about that?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:53

Letting them know that you're there and updating them on funny social events that have happened, you know. It doesn't always have to be talking about IVF. 100%. And I think my like having those conversations with my mates and them just sending me text messages about random things that happen at work, or like literally and me not replying, but them still sending things, you know, to is amazing sometimes for me to see because also in my head, or for anyone that is going through this, you are thinking, well, I was thinking, like, oh my god, am I gonna have any friends? Because like I haven't seen anyone, spoken to anyone in such a long time because I physically can't. Like, what does that look like? Do I even know how to speak to people? If you just have those moments where you get those text messages, trust me, it does mean so much when someone messages something random that happened to them or with their family or something funny happened or some really positive news that's going on with them. That's it. No, no questions, nothing needed from me.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

Just like keeping you involved and they love you.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:05

Yeah, that's that that's something cut the people out that ever tell you that if you can't keep coming to events, it's kind of annoying. Like they those people need to go.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

Like has that happened to you?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:18

Uh probably actually. Like, no, actually, no, it hasn't. I think because I've always been very like, I'm so sorry. Oh my god, I don't think I can make it. Really bad. Like, way more like that than I need to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

I think we're apologizing.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:37

And maybe if I did get ever an inkling that someone was mad for me not attending something now, bye, it's not even worth it. But I do think that's also like so important because for friends who have got friends going through this, there are going to be so many times where we can't come to things. We say we're coming, and 30 minutes before the event we physically can't. Or if you're going through IVF and plans change and your body's not responding to drugs correctly, and now everything changes within that two weeks plan. Like, yeah, it's just trust me, we don't want this to be happening to us either.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:14

No, totally.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:15

I think. Is there anything would you say?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:17

No, I think just what you said is good, especially, you know, it doesn't always have to be conversation about what's happening within your body. It can just be reaching out with funny things. And I think the most important thing is having like no expectations of like response, because response can be so hard when you're going through it. Just because you don't respond doesn't mean I mean there can be a million ways to look at it. People would be like, well, you know, it's not really considerate to not respond with like a thumbs up or a heart, but like yeah, you never really know how you're gonna react until you're going through it, and just you know, having friends there without expectation that can be there for you when you're at your like lowest or rock bottom, yeah, and don't expect too much from you is important. What would you say to someone who's still going through IVF and is feeling, you know, not so hopeful and they're just like scared and they're going through like the whole process over and over again?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:15

It's so difficult, but I I think one thing is everything you are feeling is valid. Every single thought that anyone that is still going through IVF or is just starting IVF and doesn't know what to expect is so valid. You thinking that you don't want to do this anymore, you thinking, but what does that mean? I can't I actually can't do this anymore, does it mean I'm weak? But all of those thoughts in your head, like, am I being selfish because all I want is a child, but I actually don't think I can do this anymore. This is so hard. Am I doing the right thing? Every single one of those thoughts is so valid to be having, no matter how scary it is. Because I do think sometimes, even if you speak to other people that are going through IVF, everyone's body is so. So, you know, what worked for you might not work for me. In fact, it most likely won't, because I don't have the same body as you. And as much as that is unbelievably helpful, it's also really and truly just to remember like this is your journey, your personal journey. And whoever you're going through it with, it's yours. And it's no one else's to touch or have opinions on or anything like that. And yeah, I think that's also really important because the opinions that come with IVF, well, or anything, are just can be and unwanted.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:39

The last one is if there's one thing that you could tell little Ash before she started this whole journey, is there any advice you would give to yourself?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:49

Stop being such a little, I wouldn't say stop being such a little bitch, but like, no. I I honestly ask for help. I would, I would say that. Ask for help, ask for support. It's not a weakness. It definitely isn't, is it's just not a weakness. I think this small ash in this day and age would be completely different. I think we all would. Yeah. The amount of education, the amount of support that is there for women in general is incredible. And also, I think that's just a point as well. Like women are incredible. We are incredible. And when we come together like this, and when we come together in any situation and circumstance and like lift one another up, it is it's just incredible. And it's so important. And but yeah, for little Ash, I would just say, ask for help, you big girl.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:45

That's so important though, especially for anyone listening who might be like at the beginning of their journey and might not know if they have endo or just you know, they feel that their periods are off. The biggest advice is always just advocate for yourself because you're gonna get so many doctors that tell you it's normal. You're gonna get so many people that just brush off your concerns, and it's so important to not let that noise cloud what your body is actually experiencing and feeling, and just keep pushing through. Get a second opinion, get a third, get a fourth, get a fifth, get as many as you need until you find, like you did, the doctor who believed you.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

Which is noise.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:23

Um be loud.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:24

Yeah, because take up space, don't be afraid to do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:28

100%. We gotta. We just gotta.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:32

I know, because I feel like I'm a little British inside where I don't like I don't like being loud or taking up too much space. And that's something I've had to learn too.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:42

There's yeah, I've seen you absolutely be a boss ass mother effort multiple times for sure. But no, I get 100% get where you're coming from with that, especially when you're talking to specialists who are meant to be specialists in that field. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're telling you you're fine, then that is quite scary. And it's quite scary to then be like, well, what next?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:08

Well, thank you so much for sharing all about your journey. I'm sure it's going to be helpful for a lot of people who are, you know, navigating their work situation or IVF or just endometriosis in general. So thank you so much for taking the time. Thanks for having me. Thank you for sharing it. Honestly, it means a lot. If you take anything from this episode, let it be this. You are not dramatic, you are not weak, and you are definitely not alone. Hot girls have endo. We talk about it, we support each other, and we are done suffering quietly. If you're looking for daily support, you can check out Dea in the show notes and use code HotGirls10 for 10% off your order. And if this resonated, hit follow so you don't miss the next one because we are just getting started.